# Meta
- [[Daniel Armengol Altayó]]
- [[Eduado Ivanec]]
- [[Jonathan the Utopian]]

# Meetings

- [[2021-05-22]]
	- still want to write NoTSoF
		- make for a pattern language FIRST
	- intention to merge our notes once we've made them
	- for reading group on wednesday wanted to choose patterns
		- use repository
	- TO Dos
		- summary of introduction of Pattern Language
		- start brainstorming list for glossary of terms fo NoTSoF (or more general [[Christopher Alexander]]), write these into the [[Agora]]

	- them telling me some things from their last conversation
		- regarding information and context
			- how to understand what others understand, as regards context
			- how to see if we are on the same page
			- sometimes one spends a lot of time of doing things, but one doesn't realize one is not using the same concepts/ideas for a given term
			- how to determine a minimum set of concepts/tools to check understanding -> a "conceptual context"
			- what can a "minimum denominator" be in understanding that can be a common ground / context
			- how to deal with context question
				- including passing a text, passing materials to share one's own context
				- procedures to assemble a context
				- procedures to check if we have the same context
					- e.g. in the agora, pooling materials around a node

	- building bridges between conventions rather than 
	- the exercise we are doing is about assembling different points of view on a single given topic
	
- [[2021-04-24]]
	- Topic one: moving/experimenting towards a shared digital garden? 
		- D: there are two things to distinguish 
			- shared garden for sharing notes 
			- discussion/threading/chat space

		- J: let's focus on the shared notes thing first
	 
	## Links
	- twitter but more user controlled ? 
		- https://joinmastodon.org/
		- https://ctznry.com/
	- the original wiki: https://wiki.c2.com/
	- an neat threaded hypertext project: https://www.kickscondor.com/HT2020/

	- https://anagora.org/wiki-modes
	-
	
- [[2021-04-03]]
	- [[Walter Benjamin]]
		- The work of art in the age of mechanical reproduction
	- [[Hannah Arendt]] 
		- Jonathan wants to probably read a bit about her  "theory of action"
			- https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/arendt/#AreTheAct
	- Copyright, Information laws, authorship, reputations, social capital
	- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steganography
	- memes don't have authorship
	- why/when is authorship important?
		- recognition
	- D thinks it would be interesting to apply the pattern language paradigm to understanding the nature of information and our interactions with it
	- Luciana mentioning that information discussion reminded her of Derrida
		- maybe intellectual three to Bateson ? 
		- key term for Derrida 'difference'
	- E interested in definitions of information, information theory, etc
		- relation of information and power
		- seeing as a state 
			- seeing people as information about them
	- Now pages
		- https://sive.rs/nowff
	- Idea of having one's own API
	- Digital gardeners
		- Anne le-Cunff
		- Telegram chat

	- Moa
		- integrating different streams/platforms of information

	- Indie-web, RSS
	- Indiekit

	- Plan files
		- .plan format, writing what one is planning to do

	- Carmack
		- famous programmer (doom, quake engines)

	- Primer
		- movie, made with 10'000, indie sci fi
	- Junkhead 
		- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ge18Ieyi9bI&t=9s
	- [[Adam Curtis]]
		- Can't get you out of my head
		- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Can%27t_Get_You_Out_of_My_Head_(TV_series)
	- Harun Farocki
		- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harun_Farocki

	- J's MA project? 
		- Structuralist vs. 'content/empotional/energetics' vs. UX aspects - maybe they form a trichotemy? 
	
	- Omega rule
		- extension of principle of charity ? 
		- make effort to interpret what someone else is saying as if it makes complete sense
	- Question about
		- https://twitter.com/flancian/status/1320054847987646469
			


- [[2021-06-03]]
	- https://www.beeperhq.com/
	- https://ghost.org/

- [[2021-02-14]]
	- How we relate to [[information]]
	- Thought connection to [[Christopher Alexander]]: systems that allow open-ended organic evolution 
	- ample -- seperation/distinction between [[modeling]] and [[coding]]
		- how to get people to communicate what they need
	- m prime
	- protopian themes will always lead to the word "good"
		- thinking of it as a "free variable"
		- ethics as fundmental thing to consider
			- always need to incorporate when we think/speak about how a system "should be"
			- lyotard
		- Daniel's (short-) story:
			- an overall theme to place here at the start: the back and forth interplay between technology and society
			- a short choronology
				- began studying mulimedia engineering, was attracted to playing with tech
				- first study program was a mix of computer science and design, but felt like a frankenstein program
				- he moved to a design university to continue his study path
					- electronic art and digital design
				- got involved in touch-pad table project
				- this lead to being part of starting an UX design studio
				- in context of various projects became more interested the way people were interacting with digital projects/objects rather than on the content of those projects/objects
				- moved more into art
				- art was inspiring him and wanted to also inspire others 
				- developed his own form of artistic practice
				- stopped working for brands
				- moved to the woods with a friend (call them X); X has more tech skill than D
				- together they started prototyping 
					- D more on the research part
					- X on the tech part
				- D did a bootcamp to learn more of the tech tools
				- bounced back though to thinking more about the tools / human / interaction (??) side
				- trying to find balance
				
				
		- D: comment about how
			- artists "can do whatever they want"
				- society "accepts" this
				- D wants to have this freedom; doens't want to be an artist as a "job" or "unique role"
			- use of artistic techniques / practices as a medium
				- doing experiments
					- is "playting", but in the adult context
				- exploring  and sharing without restrictions
				- social space of creation
			- E: association with "carneval"
				- Art as a bargain 
				- being "decoupled" from society ? 
			- E: wants [[revolution]], not carneval
		- D: if he had to use a label (which he doesn't like), it would be that he works with "concepts" ("conceptual artist")
		- using art as a lens, a way of seeing


		- D: many people are asking similar questions to the ones we are asking/discussing
			- how to have these [[conversations]] with groups of people? 
		- E: how to also enable new connection making ? 
			- and how can groups have conversations among themselves (between groups)
				- [[liquid democracy]], delegates ?
		- E: info com 
			- [[text adventures]] / [[interactive fiction]]
			- [[collaborative writing]]
			- [[conversation trees]]
		- E: interested in the spectrum between writing with natural languages and programming
		- D: broad current interest: information and the digital context
			- what are structurings of information that make it useful to me and others? 
		- E: "[[Context]]" is a key concept
			- key problem in CS and [[information theory]]: the question of "state"
			- a way to think of context: 
				- an intersection of [[world model]]s (e.g. between communicating parties), together with
				- [[transformations]] (i.e. ones we do in our minds), such as
					- when translating terms in one's mind when someone else is speaking
					- tracing paths of thinking (??)
					- knowing who one is speaking/listening to and interpreting in this context
			- some things are able to be externalized as technical tools
				- if they are modularizable and can have an "interface" to interact and link up with
			- some things are somehow so entangled and enmeshed that it seems impossible to seperate them out from what happens in the mind and externalize them